"Those who do not learn from history are ass-tards, and should be forced to wear a helmet when travelling out of doors."

That...is simply awesome.

~Zoo

That...is simply awesome

Thank you. Thank you very much.........

And by all means, please answer the trivia questions. In fact, while this is not a contest, the first person that finds answers to the trivia question that add up to over 15 million wins! And why not 20 million too?

First, the Dems will tie the hands of our military with ridiculous rules of engagment (like don't defend yourself).
Then they'll keep them in Iraq twice as long as necessary (We're still in Germany for Pete's sake).
Then they'll finally leave & declare victory.
Lastly, they will blame all that has happen & will happen on Bush.

The ancestors of today's pacifists were the peace loving isolationists of the 30's.
They managed to let the fascist governments of WW2 controlled almost all of Europe, large parts of Africa, the middle east, & Asia.
Then their cry was unconditional surrender after we we're attacked (BS - there were terms of surrender - Japan keep their emperor - why the heck do you sign a surrender if there aren't any conditions?).
Then, just to top it off, they get all indignant and scream for a court-martial of the Captain of the Indianapolis, complete with the Japanese commander of the submarine that sank the ship.

Ass-tards - a concise definition.   

Isn't Diplomacy great!  It provides such a humane alternative to war. 

It all reminds me of the line in Monty Python and the Holy Grail:

Perhaps it will confuse him if we run away more!

No wonder the bacteria figure that all they have to do is make it hurt and the U.S. will turn tail and run home... unlike the US, they DO learn from history.

 

 

I disagree. Every example you gave was of another state invading a "victim" state. According to you once the US failed to meet its obligations an unneccessary onslaught began.

Iraq is completely different in that the US started it. The US armed Iraq. The US invaded Iraq. The US is the aggressor. If you leave, the aggressor is gone. Will civil war ensue? Probably. But you guys screwed it up when you went there in first place. The best thing for this world is for the coalition to leave Iraq. Get the hell out of the region and dont go back.

The only achievements to date is a whole lotta death, the radicalisation of a whole new generation of suicide bombers and vast numbers of people the world over now hate what they perceive as an incredibly arrogant America. There is no way you guys are the good guys in this.

Whats more you cannot possibly win. It could be said that the US is hopeless at this kind of warfare. But i dont see how any state could really win in this situation. You've invaded another country. They will fight you year in and out for generations if need be.... so would I.

You can drift on for another 3 years and then decide to bail out. It'll be no different. There will still be a civil war. Except thousands more will have died and thousands more will have been recruited. It was arrogance that got you into this war. Dont let it be arrogance that prevents you from getting out. For all your might you guys cant turn this one round.

Call a spade a spade. You lost. Do you seriously want to die for something thats already a lost cause? Get out now and let the region self equilibriate. It was wrong of the US to invade. The best you can do is go home because it doesn't matter whether its now or later on... there aint no one going to be thanking you for it. As far as most of the rest of the world is concerned.... this whole damn thing is Americas fault.

....

P.S Dont take this as a personal attack because its not meant as one. You're a professional soldier and so I will assume that you may have particular disdain for my point of view. If i were out fighting for any given cause, risking life and limb I'd be a bit touchy when opinion was expressed that was contrary to what i was fighting for. Hell yeah I would.

I dont wish you any harm or malice, quite the opposite. But my position stands. When all is said and done, what you and your comrades have done (in good faith) wont mean a damn thing. If anything its a withdrawal not a deposit. Get out now. Go home and hug your mother and have a beer with your brother.

This invasion "was" the aggressive act, not the justified response to the aggressive act. End it now. Go Home.

Get out now and let the region self equilibriate

My point. The region won't self equilibriate. And the attempts by the U.S. in the past to do just that have ended in the catastrophic deaths of millions of people.

Do you seriously want to die for something thats already a lost cause?

No, but then I don't beleive it's a lost cause. And even supposing it was a lost cause, everyone dies in the end, but they don't stop eating every day or going to see doctors when they're sick, do they? A war on terror may never be finished, but that does not mean that it is not worth fighting.

The right thing to do does not become the wrong thing to do because people sacrifice themselves in the accomplishment of it. A cause that is right is a cause that is right. To quote (probably misquote) Boondock Saints, "What you have to ask yourself, is do you have the constitution?"

Was removing Saddam wrong? No. Was attempting to establish a democratic government wrong? No. Was attempting to prevent the creation and use of weapons of mass destruction wrong? No, although in this particular case, the urgency was just a wee bit overstated. Are we wrong to try to improve human rights, and to create stability in the region? No.

But would abandoning everything that we've done there be wrong? Yes. Is the self equilibrium you propose a power vaccuum, followed by bloody war and economic devestation plus a little starvation for good measure? Yes. Will millions of people die if we remove our troops now? Yes. My point was and is this. If we pull out, we kill people. Not a few people, millions of people. People that we took responsibilty for when we entered the war, erroneously or not. This is not solely speculation, we have historical precedent to back it up.

Well then I guess we just plain disagree.... and sometimes I think it's better just to leave it at that.

To me, you're out there reinforcing failure. But hey, all power to you. At least your monies where your mouth is and I have to respect that.
Good luck. Stay safe.

"But would abandoning everything that we've done there be wrong? Yes. Is the self equilibrium you propose a power vaccuum, followed by bloody war and economic devestation plus a little starvation for good measure? Yes. Will millions of people die if we remove our troops now? Yes. My point was and is this. If we pull out, we kill people. Not a few people, millions of people. People that we took responsibilty for when we entered the war, erroneously or not. This is not solely speculation, we have historical precedent to back it up."

This is where it gets real interesting for me so I'll start commenting here.

"Will millions of people die if we remove our troops now? Yes."

How and why and by who's army?

"People that we took responsibilty for when we entered the war"

We shouldn't have taken responsibility for the Iraqi's any farther then removing Saddam, and helping to set up a government, the time is now in Iraq, if you are an Iraqi, and you want your kids to live in peace one day, stand up, get a job in the army, or the police force, buy into how it's done, read and practice what your newfound constitution says. That's who should be fighting this insurgency and war, that's who needs to take responsibility. Iraq is not the 51st state, Iraqi's are not American citizens, they are not entitled to police protection from our troops, we've done our time and then some over there and just because President Bush wants to stay until the job is done, doesn't mean the job will ever be finished. Ever consider that if we stay until the job it done, we could be in for not a few more months, or years, but decades at best, perhaps a few generations like 20-40-60-80 years at worst?

Who voted for that deployment? Certainly not I.

Very interesting.  THanks for the history lesson.

How and why and by who's army?

Excellent question. One distinct possibility is by Forces belonging to Iraq. It's probable, not just possible that without the U.S. watching over their shoulders, the Iraqi government will quickly turn into a power struggle ending in a totalitarian regime. However in my personal favorite guess, Iran will exploit the power vaccuum.

Who will shoot whom, and who will end up purged or just plain starving to death is up for grabs. However, the same kind of situation that we have seen time and again will present itself in which in the removal of a dominant force, a lot of people end up getting screwed.

We shouldn't have taken responsibility for the Iraqi's any farther then removing Saddam, and helping to set up a government, the time is now in Iraq,

But we did take that responisibility. You can't expect people who have been ground into the dirt since the British occupied the country to spontaneously grow the infrastructure and the lifestyle to magically support themselves. You may not have voted for that war, but there remains an obligation as a citizen of the country that implemented it.

Not having caused or agreed with something does not necessarily remove from us a responsibility for the actions of others with whom we are associated. For example, when a member of our family harms someone else through actions we had nothing to do with, we still try to help the individual harmed as best we can.

Ever consider that if we stay until the job it done, we could be in for not a few more months, or years, but decades at best,

Yes. And it has worked for us in the past. Take the cliche examples of post-WWII Japan, post-Nazi Germany, and post-war South Korea. It will take a long time to change the mindsets, and to engrain lasting values, and a lasting way of life. Most of the things that are worth doing most in life are difficult, and slow to be accomplished.

Good luck. Stay safe.

Very interesting.

Thanks, and thanks.

One distinct possibility is by Forces belonging to Iraq. It's probable, not just possible that without the U.S. watching over their shoulders, the Iraqi government will quickly turn into a power struggle ending in a totalitarian regime. However in my personal favorite guess, Iran will exploit the power vaccuum.

I don't see why we have to choose between these two 'options.' My personal belief is that it would be a totalitarian regime that would be completely exploited by Iran: Shiite religious fanatics and Ayatollahs running the show, answering to those back in Iran who had harbored and succorred them during Saddam's secular Sunni rule.

it has worked for us in the past. Take the cliche examples of post-WWII Japan, post-Nazi Germany, and post-war South Korea. It will take a long time to change the mindsets, and to engrain lasting values, and a lasting way of life. Most of the things that are worth doing most in life are difficult, and slow to be accomplished.

Refreshing examples. Generally, all around well done, NBS. Congrats on being featured.

Excellent blog article. I am laughing and crying for those who still don't get it and refuse to WAKE UP.

General Cody put it best when he referred to the situation as a battle of wills and if we, the U.S., buckle than its over. If we lose there not only do more innocent people die but the virus will think we are weak and pursue us even back to our homeland. In their eyes a person can be either one of two things, either you are strong or weak. If you are the latter than they will not hesitate in attacking you.

Have a fun Veteran's Day, soldiers.

- X

hold the course, or get away from the wheel....quitting only gives our enemies pleasure.

This is right on the MONEY! Oop's I mean it's telling it like it should be told. But no Hemmoraging Heart LIBERAL can stand the TRUTH of History. They are such FEELY GOOD and OH that's such a nice thing to blah-blah-blah BULLSHIT spreader's it is unbelieveable.The real reason they keep spreading so much BULLSHIT is their head's have been up their own ASSES so long they can't see or think clearly.And by the way if you run for OFFICE you just might be Elected if you're allowed enough time to restate this article.But FAT ASS Teddy (the swimmer ) had anything to do with it you couldn't be allowed to open people's eye's.Let alone allow them to stop DROWNING in the sick Liberalism of today.They have suceeded in their 50 plus year of DIVIDING then CONQUER Ideology of the LEFT World-Wide.Unfortunately their are alot of young ASSHOLE'S in this Country that has bought into the LIBERAL way of thinking.I almost forgot I'm being JUDGEMENTAL and that is so BAD.Well,anyone who think's stating the TRUTH is JUDGEMENTAL... you can alway's take a flying f...... leap off the nearest cliff to your living quarter's.Yeah,no PHD,MD,or any other bullshit initial's next to my name just my opinion. Just like the asshole saying,opinion's are like blah-blah-blah everyone has one.That should override the judgemental bullshit response. OK this is enough for right now.Let's just hope and PRAY no LIBERAL will EVER get the Commander in CHIEF job of America. If that happen's we will be on our way to HELL without the help of a handbasket.